Forum: Author Hangout

Weird Metaphors

Crumbly Writer 🚫

Just saw this one (reading the same SOL story):

laughter slipping between them like warm embers on a cold night.

Ouch! I can see the more traditional "slipping past them", but embers between them. I'm sorry, but I've watched too many forest fires, and I realize just how dangerous flying embers can be. Fires are one thing, as they're generally controlled, but as a general metaphor?

It does make you stop and consider it, yet for a vaguely random comment, readers are likely to come away with the bad reaction to it.

Replies: awnlee jawking Dicrostonyx

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Crumbly Writer

laughter slipping between them like warm embers on a cold night

I consider that a red flag for AI-generated text. AI doesn't actually understand the meanings of words so generates a lot of weird metaphors and similes etc.

AJ

Replies: Crumbly Writer

Crumbly Writer 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I'd never expect an AI to even recognize what a metaphor is, so I hadn't even considered it. But if that was, say, one of the prompts, then yeah, I could easily picture it.

Replies: Switch Blayde

Switch Blayde 🚫

@Crumbly Writer

I'd never expect an AI to even recognize what a metaphor is

I've asked Google for a metaphor for something and its AI replied with some. I think I used other AI's as well when needing one. Some were pretty good.

Replies: Crumbly Writer awnlee jawking

Crumbly Writer 🚫

@Switch Blayde

It's not that the AI couldn't churn one out. After all, they have access to nearly every fiction novel ever published as they keep hoovering data at an unprecedented amount, yet the entire basis of a metaphor isn't merely recycling old ideas, it's about originality. And you can't achieve something original merely by shifting a few words or phrases about.

So the question isn't whether it's save you time, but as the European courts have been ruling lately, you may just be sued for copyright infringement, whatever the AI says about their supposed protections, as those 'copyright protections' weren't assigned by law or by the courts, instead it was by a buy-out proxy, where the 'victors' decided to share the 'spoils'.

There's no chance in hell of it ever standing up in court, aside from in the U.S.A., of course, with our Supreme Court currently running amok with every single constitutional protection. I figure our fates if already sealed at this point.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

I've asked Google for a metaphor for something and its AI replied with some.

When tasked with writing a scene, I'm not convinced AI is 'aware' that it's using similes and metaphors.

When you ask it specifically to provide metaphors and similes, the extra information will allow it to tailor its search to metaphor and simile contexts.

(My opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it!)

AJ

Replies: Mat Twassel Crumbly Writer

Mat Twassel 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Here's a conversation I had with CoPilot just now about metaphor:

Me: Can you come up with five variations on this sentence: He was overwhelmed by the beauty of her smile. Each sentence should include at least one simile or metaphor.

Absolutely, Mat. Here are five variations, each with a touch of figurative flair:

1. Her smile struck him like sunlight breaking through a storm—sudden, radiant, and impossible to ignore.
2. He felt like a sailor lured by a siren's song, utterly powerless beneath the spell of her smile.
3. Her smile was a spark in the dark chamber of his thoughts, setting everything alight with wonder.
4. It hit him like warm honey melting over his heart—her smile, slow and golden, undoing him.
5. Her smile bloomed before him like a field of wildflowers, unexpected and breathtaking in its simplicity.

Want me to spin a few of these into a short story or poem? Or switch up the mood—make them funny, mysterious, or bittersweet?

Me: Thanks! I notice that in each sentence you provide the comparison and then go on to "explain" it or add to it. While this is fine, I think that generally the comparison is stronger in fiction if it's left to stand by itself. I'm interested in your opinion.

That's a really insightful observation, Mat. There's definitely something potent about letting a metaphor or simile hang in the air without elaboration—like a perfectly struck note that resonates longer because it's not chased by explanation. When a comparison is left on its own, it invites the reader to lean in and complete the emotional connection themselves, which can create a more immersive and evocative experience. It trusts the reader's intuition.
That said, sometimes expanding on an image adds nuance or texture that might otherwise be missed, especially if the tone calls for lyricism or introspection. But in fiction, especially where pacing and subtlety are key, I agree—letting the metaphor stand can be the more powerful move. It's like giving the reader space to feel rather than being told what to feel.

Want to try refining some of those lines with a lighter touch? Or I could toss out a few comparisons that do just that.

Replies: Crumbly Writer

Crumbly Writer 🚫
Updated:

@Mat Twassel

Exactly what I thought, as those five examples are about as cliched as you can get (overwork and no longer the least bit original or relevant today).

Again, "warm honey melting over his heart"? WTF does that even mean? It may sound nice, yet it's essentially meaningless gibberish.

P.S. That's "gibberish", first derived for the sounds a common gibbon makes.

Replies: Mat Twassel awnlee jawking Mat Twassel

Mat Twassel 🚫

@Crumbly Writer

The warm honey metaphor was my favorite of the five.

Please favor us with your five original metaphors for "He was overwhelmed by the beauty of her smile."

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Crumbly Writer

P.S. That's "gibberish", first derived for the sounds a common gibbon makes.

gibberish - origin about 1550
gibbon - origin about 1770

AJ

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@awnlee jawking

gibbon - origin about 1770

Gibbons are living animals. While Europeans may not have been aware of their existence prior to 1770, I'm pretty sure that they have been around longer than that.

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Dominions Son

I posted the first recorded uses of 'gibberish' and 'gibbon'. Since 'gibberish' entered English some 200 years before 'gibbon', it's unlikely to have been derived from it.

AJ

Replies: Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Gibberish is thought to originate from 'gibber' (though 'gibberish' is recorded first) or perhaps 'jabber.' Both are onomatopoeic words intended to convey how a language one doesn't understand sounds.

Any link to gibbons is extremely unlikely. No one around when 'gibberish' entered the language was likely to have seen, or even heard of, a gibbon. 'Gibbon' itself enters the language via the French, who probably got it from Southeast Asia, quite possibly Malaysia.

Sounds very much like a false cognate (of which there are so very many in English - if nothing else, simply because English has so very many words).

Replies: Crumbly Writer

Crumbly Writer 🚫

@Grey Wolf

You're right, it's much more likely that those factors influenced how the name "gibbon" was assigned to the animal, because it's vocalization sound so much like gibberish. After all, the same onomatopoeic roots apply to both.

Mat Twassel 🚫

@Crumbly Writer

I think the story I posted today, "Call of the Wild" by CoPilot AI, shows that AI can come up with reasonable metaphors without any special prompt.

Replies: Crumbly Writer

Crumbly Writer 🚫

@Mat Twassel

Again, I for one am more than happy coming up with my own metaphors (see my previous references to using AI to avoid putting in the least amount of effort). But for those, unused to creating original work, I can see the need for some (ANY) help possible.

If you're unable to see the canvas, it's impossible to paint anything, using paints, words or crayons.

Replies: Mat Twassel

Mat Twassel 🚫

@Crumbly Writer

using AI to avoid putting in the least amount of effort

I'm puzzled what this means.

In any case, I'm waiting for your original smile metaphors.

Crumbly Writer 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Ditto with mine. I give it away for free, because for most, it's worth essentially nothing, as it's merely my personal opinion. I have a particular vision and higher standards than most, yet if you don't share those same values, it don't do much good. ;)

Dicrostonyx 🚫

@Crumbly Writer

Aside from the AI suggestion, its worth noting that (a) some metaphors are used in non-standard ways in some regions, and, (b) metaphors in other languages don't often transfer well, but may exist in a badly translated form in communities that have a heavy influence from the original culture.

An example of 'a' is the the phrase "to torpedo an idea". In some areas the phrase is "to submarine an idea". Some linguists suggest the two phrases have slightly different meanings, where "submarining" something means to intentionally conceal it while "torpedoing" means to destroy it. However, the two phrases are both used in the context of discrediting or "sinking" an idea and you typically a given person will use one or the other, not both.

An example of 'b' is the way some Yiddish sayings are popular in New York City or how a number of Swedish and German sayings entered American English due to immigration. You also see this from people who are fluent in English but it's not their first language, so sometimes they'll just translate an idiom when they can't think of the right way to say something, only to realize to late that it doesn't make a lot of sense.

For example, there's a Finnish phrase that translates as "read like the Devil reads the Bible," which means to deliberately look for loopholes. Another good one is "to twist like wire," which means to explain something in the simplest terms possible (this comes from how plumbing was assembled historically).

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Forum: Author Hangout

Weird Metaphors

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