Forum: Story Discussion and Feedback

There's a difference between a pure teaser and a chapter of a story that's available for publication. I don't know what the crap stories are doing, but a lot of us release the full book on Zbookstore before rolling out the chapters for free here. That lets people who can't wait just get the book, but if you don't want to pay, you'll still get the entire story eventually (and at a regular pace).

And, sure, as long as the full story is available "eventually", it's not just a teaser. But you sure know how to game the system to the exteme.

I struggle to comprehend the situation with Teen Dreams Book 4, currently in progress on SOL. SOL posting started over two years ago and a complete book of that name was released on zbookstore over two years ago, but the SOL version is currently 50% longer than the zbookstore version.

AJ

It's not "gaming the system" if you play by the rules Lazeez has established.

Besides, if Fanlon's releasing two chapters a week, why does it matter if he's also got an ebook out in ZBookstore? You're getting it for free on a regular schedule.

A "pure teaser" is something where you have to pay to get the full story.

It sounds like you have expectations for how fast something should be released.

Sorry, no. I cannot acknowledge that releasing completed chapters for months on end constitutes teasing and is shitty.

Long, long before Bookapy came into existence, authors released 1-2 chapters/week of their serials here. Hell, I was doing it in 2003. That's a normal release pattern.

Is it "just as shitty" to release chapters of a long serial weekly over a couple of months, if they aren't for sale somewhere? It's a tease for the next chapter, isn't it?

Which begs the question: If Fanlon had never put his story up on ZBS, would you still be complaining?

If he took it down from ZBS tomorrow, would you still be complaining?

Or do you want the rule to be, "you can't put it up for sale until you're within two weeks of releasing the last chapter here?"

Because that's what you're arguing for.

The fact that the story IS available for money changes things.

No, it does not.

But THAT would then be seen as potentially angering readers who feel like they're getting teased, right!?

If a reader is going to get angry about something they are getting for free, then that's on them, not the author.

Which is the heart of our disagreement. You think the fact that the story is also available for pay entitles the free readers to get angry if it's not released quickly. I do not.

Given that fundamental disagreement, there is no point in continuing this discussion.

Readers are NOT getting angry for not getting something for free. They are getting angry for getting teased. You keep reiterating that the stories are getting posted, so nobody should have a problem with it. Completely ignoring the point where the story is posted SO SLOWLY that it's everyone's guess whether or not they actually WILL get any story for free.
It's the milking of readers that upsets me and others.

I just want to be sure I understand where you're coming from. We are discussing the case where the author is posting a story as a serial, on a regular time schedule, when they have the completed book up for sale on ZBookstore, correct?

If that is correct, then I personally don't think your argument holds up. If the story has been completed, it's quite likely that it's all queued to post on a set schedule from the start. Yes, if a story is for sale complete and the author only ever posts part of it for free, then it would be a teaser and Lazeez would get involved.

I'm one of those people who generally doesn't read serials until they are complete, but only because so many authors have hit writer's block or have been physically unable to finish, leaving me hanging. If I know a story is complete and available, I'll at least start on the serial. Usually, if I like the serial, I'll just go ahead and buy from the bookstore to a) reward the author and b) have it sooner, but that's on me, not the author.

If a reader is going to get angry about something they are getting for free, then that's on them, not the author.

The author is getting advertising for free. Some authors use it to build up a following on SOL then, when they think enough readers are buying their books to constitute critical mass, they go fully commercial and remove their content from SOL.

AJ

The author is getting advertising for free. Some authors use it to build up a following on SOL then, when they think enough readers are buying their books to constitute critical mass, they go fully commercial and remove their content from SOL.

I was one of the early adopters of Patreon on SOL, and I discussed it at length with Lazeez before doing so. I made a commitment to both him and to my readers that ALL stories in the AWLL universe (e.g., AWLL, GM, CTL) would be made available for free and would remain so.

While I can't rule out my heirs and assigns failing to follow my instructions, I have a provision in my will placing that material in the public domain upon my death. I would prefer they not go behind the paywall, but that is up to Lazeez, as he has a business to run, one from which I have benefited greatly.

If I want to exclusively sell something, it won't be in those universes. Period. I owe that to my readers and to Lazeez.

You don't have to follow the author to their paid content. You can download the stories you got for free before they get deleted.

If you're in a food court and someone gives you a free sample, do you complain that they didn't give you the rest of the meal for free?

It's advertising in the exact same way.

If you don't like it, you don't have to take the free sample. It's pretty obvious which stories have already been released on ZBS/Bookapy. Just don't read them.

I think you missed my point.

The aim of authors who want to go commercial is to gain a large following by initially posting stories for free on SOL. However they also put their stories or sequels on eg Amaz** or patre** (sometimes with extra content) to see how many readers are prepared to pay. Once they deem that figure is adequate, they stop posting stories to SOL.

ETA Actually I too seem to have missed my point. If authors use SOL to advertise stories which provide them with a financial gain, I think there's an obligation to publish the content to SOL in a reasonable timeframe. T&C give guidelines for eg Patre**, but when the whole story is available on zbookstore from the off, that doesn't seem to be covered.

It's probably in the interests of the author to keep the story on the homepage, or at least in the monthly toplists, for as long as possible, but is that fair to readers?

AJ

I don't see why not. They get the story for free, chapter by chapter, like it has been done for almost three decades at SOL. That people willing to pay for the finished story get it from the ZBS does not change the experience of the people reading it for free. At least from me, they get the chapters with the same regularity as they got my pre-2024 stories. I have not had one complaint from the SOL readers of whom a lot are premier members.
I profit from this, too, since I get ten times the feedback, helping me to improve.

If an author already has a book finished, of let's say 30 chapters, what would be the acceptable timeline of posting new chapters? A day, a week or a month? All the time telling you if you don't want to wait, you can buy it.

If the book is on ZBookStore or Bookapy, Lazeez has defined the maximum time between posting chapters. I'm too lazy to look it up. I don't need to know because I always post a new chapter once a week or sooner and I know that's within the guidelines.

However, the author can post chapters more frequently than that rule if he so chooses based on his marketing strategy. That's no different than a completed story that is not for sale. The author decides the frequency of chapter posting to increase reader downloads.

My latest novel, "A Chance for Charity," began as a Valentine's Day contest story. When the contest didn't materialize, I kept writing. Although now, without the time constraints of a contest, I expanded the plot and characters to a full-length novel. I published it on ZBookStore with the intention of posting chapters once a week on SOL to attract more people, but never did the latter. If someone wants to read it, they have to buy it. And many people have. In the future, I might put it on SOL to be read for free, but not at the moment. So am I to be vilified because I wrote a novel that I'm not offering for free?

am I to be vilified because I wrote a novel that I'm not offering for free?

I would say no because you're not using SOL to advertise it (I hope!).

AJ

I would say no because you're not using SOL to advertise it (I hope!).

It's on ZBookStore so I advertised it in an SOL blog when I published it. And I guess I could put a ZBookStore ad at the end of one of my free stories on SOL. Doing so benefits Lazeez because of his cut on each ZBookStore sale and therefore SOL.

"Acceptable" to whom?

If a reader doesn't find a timeline for posting new chapters acceptable, they don't have to read the story.

I myself, as a reader, am grateful for whatever release schedule the author is comfortable with. After all, I'm not paying them for it so I accept it as the gift that it is.

The sense of entitlement of some people in this thread is astounding.

The sense of entitlement of some people in this thread is astounding.

Would that be the authors who shamelessly try to coerce every possible cent out of readers, or readers who feel entitled to read for free every story written by an author they like?

There's a middle ground and I think management here do a good job of meeting it.

AJ

I don't get it. How is an author who has the finished story up for sale, but it still willing to let us read the story for free, coercing anyone by posting it slowly on a regular schedule? They're giving us a choice about what we value most: a few dollars or immediate gratification. If we place more value on the $, then we need only wait for the story to be posted.

There's also the concept that by paying for the story, we're rewarding the author for their time, skills and ideas in creating a story that we enjoy reading. Is that a bad thing? Not to me, at least.

Now, the people whining that the story isn't being posted on a schedule that they want, yeah, I'd call that entitlement.

But AT SOME POINT, you are no longer posting it for people to read for free.

As others have pointed out, Michael Loucks is one of the good guys, so your use of the word 'you' could be misconstrued.

AJ

And, again, if I have to post the full story here within two weeks of posting it on my Patreon, then the same should apply if I post my full story on ZBS or Bookapy.

The big difference between ZBS/Bookapy and Patreon/Amazon is that ZBS takes a cut of the cover price of every book sold.

Therefore, postings on SOL which send users to ZBS to purchase a copy of the book are of benefit to SOL (or to the company running it). If the post on SOL sends users to Patreon, Ream, Inkitt, Amazon or anywhere else, this *doesn't* benefit the company running SOL.

Why do you think SOL allows ZBS ads at the bottom of stories? It's because it benefits SOL to do so.

Why do you think the site doesn't allow advertising for other sites? Because it doesn't benefit SOL.

It's a crucial difference.

It would be bad business for one branch of the company to introduce the same rules for another branch of the company as apply to the company's competitors.

You've raised a key point. You're right that from a reader's perspective, having to wait can be frustrating. But you've mislabeled that frustration as "milking." What you're describing is the "Freemium" model, and it's fundamental to almost all modern entertainment.

It's a model as old as publishing itself, from Charles Dickens serialising novels in the 1800s to modern newspapers serialising abridged versions of highly anticipated novels/memoirs, to Hollywood's modern system of cinematic releases versus streaming.

It's capitalism 101.

The theatrical run of Fantastic Four, for instance, is essentially a massive promotional effort for its later availability on Disney+. Disney isn't "milking" me by having a theatrical window; they are offering a clear choice. I'm choosing to wait for it to arrive on my subscription, but others will pay for immediate access.

This "Freemium" model allows this site to exist. Authors post here without any direct financial compensation from this site (SOL). Unlike posting to Patreon/Ream/Amazon/ZBS, or any other paid-for platform.

The only way they can justify giving away work that they have invested hundreds of hours into writing, editing, and refining for free is the opportunity that some patient readers might become paying customers.

The fact that some readers choose to wait for a story to be fully posted here, while others happily pay to read it early, proves the system is working. It provides every reader with a choice that suits them - You can read for free, paying with patience, or you can pay for the convenience of finishing it immediately.

No one is forced to do anything. No one is forced to buy, and no one is forced to read on a schedule they don't like.

The alternative to this model isn't that authors would simply post their entire finished books for free all at once. The alternative is that many authors wouldn't be able to afford to post here at all.

If Lazeez himself acknowledges that you must post the completed story here withing two weeks of publishing it on your Patreon for money, then THAT'S the timeframe established as "not yet teasing".

If I remember correctly, this is for posting chapters on Patreon. The SOL posting of the same chapters must follow closely behind, i.e. ≤ two weeks delay. Correct me if I err.
I have no Patreon site, so I did not follow this too closely.

the info the full story is already available on the site's book store makes my decision about wait-until-the-last-chapter-is-posted or start-reading-now easier.

Helmut, how would you know that if the ad is at the end of the last posted chapter?

An author posts the first 2 stories in a series that are well received that promises a follow up

Are the first two complete stories? If so, what's the problem? If Lee Child did that with his first two Jack Reacher novels and then offered the third for sale, would that be a problem?

I actually have a different situation. When I wrote "Steele Justice" it was when I was getting into self-publishing on Amazon (I think it was my 3rd published novel after "Sexual Awakening" and "Last Kiss"). When Bookapy (what's now ZBookStore) came about, I published it there. Then I wrote "Death of a Hero," which was another Lincoln Steele novel, and posted it on SOL for free. Then I made some changes to it and published the revised version on ZBookStore. At the end of the free story there is an ad for the published version and an ad for the first novel in the series. Then I wrote "High School Massacre" and posted it for free on SOL with an ad for it on ZBS for the exact same version. People bought it while posting the chapters and are still buying it even though it's completely posted. So I have three novels on ZBS for sale in the Lincoln Steele series and the first one is only available for sale. If I had planned that in advance, I wouldn't have done it that way, but it wasn't planned. I also decided to change the order of the books in the series and flipped "High School Massacre" with "Death of a Hero" so that they are now numbers two and three, respectively. It makes no difference because they are all stand-alone novels that happen to have some of the same characters (think James Bond and Q and M and Miss. Moneypenny). The series order only matters because the 4th novel (if I ever complete it) begins with Steele doing R&R after what happened in "Death of a Hero" so "Death of a Hero" had to be #3 in the series.

So, "High School Massacre" is available for free as the same version as what is for sale on ZBS. "Death of a Hero" is available for free on SOL with a slightly longer version for sale on ZBS. "Steele Justice," the first in the series, is only for sale on ZBS. Is that wrong?

So when a story I really loved end with a cliffhanger and then told I will need to pay money I don't have to find out how it turns out

Aha. That means the story didn't end. My stories have a beginning, middle, and end. I would never end it with a cliffhanger. I see your point.

I may end a story vaguely, though, leaving it to the reader to decide. In the movie "Swing Vote," the movie ended with Keven Costner casting his vote but we, the audience, don't know who he voted for. Some would see that as a cliffhanger. Not me. It was about how this loser ended up taking voting seriously, which made his daughter proud, not who won the election. That was the end of the story.

If you need to pay for one of the stories to understand the free story or – worse – the conclusion of the last free story is in the first pay-for story, the I regard this as a serious violation of the Posting Guidelines and I would alert the webmaster.

I believe there have been instances where authors have written a series of stories and as soon as the next one starts to appear on SOL, the previous one is deleted. I remember thinking, 'How is the reader supposed to understand where the current story is coming from?' without reading the previous stories in the series, which now require payment.

AJ

So I got it right. If the story is completed, the last chapter is posted at Pa….. and must be posted on SOL within two weeks. Same difference.

If I want the book now I can pay for it, and $2.99 isn't extreme. I bought one of Ed's books. Fanlon has always had a practice of short chapters, and yeah, sometimes it leaves me wanting more, but I'm patient. No one is forcing me to buy a book.

Fanlon has always had a practice of short chapters, and yeah, sometimes it leaves me wanting more, but I'm patient.

His latest story is a bit meh. The protagonist has to be at least 17 but acts the same as in early books. And the plot is now just a vehicle to move from one sex scene to another.

I preferred the author who wrote 'Pinhole'. That was far superior, in my opinion.

AJ

The one problem with buying a story is there is no money back guarantee when you find out it is unreadable.

If the story is being posted while also for sale, you can read the posted chapters. If it's good enough to want to buy it before the rest is posted, why would the rest be unreadable?

And if it's only for sale, that's why the bookstore offers a free sample. If the sample is readable, why wouldn't the rest be?

And if it's only for sale, that's why the bookstore offers a free sample. If the sample is readable, why wouldn't the rest be?

I've started more than a few stories with a great initial premise but where the author has failed to exploit it fully and written something generic. If you buy a story and it turns out the author flunked it like that, it might not be apparent until several chapters in and you'd be very disappointed.

AJ

I've started more than a few stories with a great initial premise but where the author has failed to exploit it fully and written something generic. If you buy a story and it turns out the author flunked it like that, it might not be apparent until several chapters in and you'd be very disappointed.

People have demonized the Traditional Publishing industry, calling them gatekeepers in a negative way, but you take a greater risk purchasing a self-published book. Maybe those gatekeepers do a good job.

The gatekeeping extends into subject matter/content, and yes, that is a negative.

Traditional publishing is a business. They invest in the production, marketing, and distribution of a novel. If it doesn't sell, they not only don't make a profit but could lose money. They believe they know what their readers want and choose the subject matter/content that applies. That's why they have so many imprints. Different content for different readers.

Now, I'm saying that as a self-published author who writes content they reject (graphic, explicit sex).

How many authors on SOL will write gay stories? Or other common squick stories. Not many because the gatekeepers on SOL will punish them for doing so. What, there are gatekeepers on SOL? Sure, the voting readers.

Niche audience stories ought to have a place here.

It would be nice if mother/son incest had stayed niche :-(

AJ

Yes, but that doesn't make it a good thing if there are no other routes to get published.

At some level, I think we would all like to see our name in print, but the companies can only publish so many books.

What, there are gatekeepers on SOL? Sure, the voting readers.

Don't gatekeepers block unprofitable content? Writing a low-scoring story on SOL doesn't financially impact the author unless they were planning to put it on zbookstore too.

AJ

Don't gatekeepers block unprofitable content? Writing a low-scoring story on SOL doesn't financially impact the author unless they were planning to put it on zbookstore too.

Well, the true gatekeeper on SOL is Lazeez. He decides what content is not permitted.

But I was talking about another type of gatekeeper. Not a financial one. Based on comments on this forum, the reader gatekeepers have an impact. They do block some content even if it's indirectly.

But getting back to the point I made about your comment, a purchaser of a book that was traditionally published and went through their rigamarole can be more confident that the novel that started out good won't fizzle out.

Writing a low-scoring story on SOL doesn't financially impact the author

No, but it might morally impact the writer. If a story scores a lot lower than the story actually warrants, then you could demoralise the writer enough that they stop.

A few small individuals may be impervious to criticism (Think the of the film directer Uwe Boll), but I think they are in the minority.

How many authors on SOL will write gay stories? Or other common squick stories. Not many because the gatekeepers on SOL will punish them for doing so. What, there are gatekeepers on SOL? Sure, the voting readers

I'm not sure that is truly correct. I think there is a high coincidence/correlation between those types of story and bad writing. Their very niche nature limits the pool of writers of those works, which in turn limits the quality (Lets say for argument, 10% of writers write well, then the more writers you have, the more 'better' writers you have.)

With a more obscure genre, if you only have eight writers catering to that, then there is a chance that you haven't (yet) gained that elusive one in ten writer.

I think there is a high coincidence/correlation between those types of story and bad writing.

Maybe because the better writers avoid those subjects. I have no idea. I don't read them or write them. But let's say an author's stories are typically in the 7s and 8s, and then he writes a gay story. A well-written gay story, but a gay story. And that story gets a score in the 4s or 5s (or less). Will he be apt to write another gay story? Would he ask for his gay story to be deleted?

I actually wrote one gay story before coming to SOL. It was posted on ASSTR. The strength of the story, what made it a good story (in my opinion), was the twist at the end. When reading it, the reader thought they were reading a MF story. A guy picks up a gorgeous long-haired "girl" hitchhiker. It's not until the very end that the guy discovers the "girl" is a boy (it even pre-dates the transgender hype). The reason I didn't post it on SOL wasn't because it was gay. It was because the MM story tag would ruin the twist. But I'm glad I never posted it on SOL.

But let's say an author's stories are typically in the 7s and 8s, and then he writes a gay story. A well-written gay story, but a gay story. And that story gets a score in the 4s or 5s (or less). Will he be apt to write another gay story? Would he ask for his gay story to be deleted?

Click on my name, and I have four stories above 7, top three being 7.6, 7.3, 7.2 and the mean probably around 6.5 out of 27 stories. So pretty average.

On an other account, purely for an exploration of MM and trans, there is just over ten stories, with four being over 7 (top three being 7.4, 7.4, 7.3,) so you could argue that the mean is higher and therefore the gay stories are better.

Both accounts have short stories with the focus mainly on the 'rumpy pumpy'.

So I tried a different track with yet another account. This one with ten stories (at present) where I tried different things. One was a competition entry, which got demolished (5.67) so yeah, like you mentioned above, I seriously thought about deleting it after the embargo was up and making it longer (time constraints and my own ability, and final submission date meant that it was shorter than I actually wanted). I may still do.

Another (6.5) was a deliberate (on my part) head fuck, so it's score was actually better than expected. The remaining eight are all above 7.3 with two of them being over 8.2!

What I am starting to notice about the readership, is that you can sneak in pretty much anything, if it fits the storyline. Long stories are preferred and score higher. Actual characters who behave as their character, do well. Don't split a story into different characters (to post as separate stories) as those stories may not get read and overall 'plot' will be lost, so combine everything and the overall score will increase (I found that out at scifistories when I combined two stories, deleting one).

For me, the downside is that it's a lot harder, as I have to work a lot harder, but the result is pretty undeniable. Plot and character make a big difference to a story score and my overall story (score) trajectory is upward. However, that does mean that my productivity has dropped off the proverbial. Which does tie in with the old adage. "You have three choices, cheap, fast, quality. You can only have two".

There is also a few other other things I have noticed over the years, which I suspect ties in with the majority demographic of the readership. Military (especially American) stories do well, regardless of technical merit. Especially if it involves marines. The main characters must include father and daughter. There must be guns, lots of guns. And fishing. And the story should involve trailer parks/caravans.

To me, it seems like the majority of readers here are American, they must either have served or wanted to serve, have lived or grew up in a trailer park. Like guns (obviously). Are either single or married without children or only have sons. Like/watches the Simpsons or Family dad. In fact, they are a stereotypical demographic which I won't mention as that strays into the forbidden 'P' word.

Not all the readers obviously, but I suspect there are the equivalent in other countries as well.

Now the gatekeeping extends to the sex and race of the writer as well.

Well, they have more than their quota of white, middle-aged males :-(

AJ

Sadly, trad-publishers have fallen victim to the cult of celebrity and are likely to publish anything by anyone who's famous enough. Still, it keeps ghostwriters in a job.

AJ

I don't see how they have time to write the drivel they are posting.

Computers are faster than people. If you post the output without cleanup, you get what we see at least that is what I suspect.

danbaifen

It seems to me like the stories are reposts from somewhere else. Google found a link to that name on tiktok, which I don't have access to.

81 titles on zbookstore and photos are of Chinese-looking models. Could they be English translations of Chinese stories?

AJ

danb

It's been a few days since the most recent post. Much as I have no interest in reading the stories, I'd be uncomfortable if an author who had broken no rules had been driven away.

AJ

I would have, if I were in their shoes. I almost packed it in myself Tuesday night after reading this thread, I couldn't imagine if I was called out by name.

Why write and post somewhere that doesn't want you or, at best, merely tolerates you? When even Laz isn't a fan of it but it brings in traffic, how would you expect to react? Cooler heads prevailed and I just thought, fuck it, some people enjoy some of my stuff. I write for fun, that's the best payment I can ask for.

I participated in his Bananagram challenges, so I was responsible for a minuscule percentage of the output under his name.

AJ

delete stories that:
score less than 7, and

As someone who regularly scores below that, I'm obviously going to say that's a terrible idea.

Going by my reader PM's and comments, removing those stories would annoy many people immensely. Also, just because a large percentage of readers don't (for what-ever reason) absolutely love a story, should not mean it's removed.

I cannot stand country and western music, or drill music for that matter, but my music taste should not mean that those genres are removed from existence, no matter how much I hate them. And that follows for genres of books as well.

I cannot stand country and western music

If all music by people who can't sing (and that means all rap 'artists') was to be deleted, that would mostly be an improvement. That would include artists like Mariah Carey, who always uses electronic voice enhancement these days, but then who needs a new version of 'All I want for Christmas' every year when she was comprehensively outsung by that kid in 'Love Actually'!

AJ

Yes, this would be a fantastic way to both discourage new writers and lose current ones. My stuff is like half and half getting to a 7, so I just wouldn't bother posting here anymore if half my stories were just deleted. As a purveyor of slop (non-AI, just to clarify), I find it really strange that a sex stories site hates sex stories so much.

It would also encourage 1-bombers to target stories/themes they don't like; wiping them off the site. It would discourage trying new things because if it failed, boom gone. Some stories also take time to develop, with the score increasing over time.

So yeah, I'm with you Pixy. Terrible idea.

I find it really strange that a sex stories site hates sex stories so much.

I found the use of the word 'extreme' in the title surprising. The few stories I've read that match the OP's criteria seem to be relatively moderate and formulaic. I've read and edited stuff elsewhere that needed a strong stomach. There may be the equivalent on SOL but I haven't bothered to look for it and I wouldn't want to encourage it.

AJ

I find it really strange that a sex stories site hates sex stories so much.

Well said.

I find it really strange that a sex stories site hates sex stories so much

That's because it isn't actually a sex stories site. What Laz set it up to be, and what it has become, are two separate things. However, Laz, like the rest of us, has bills to pay and the age old adage has been proven true repeatedly throughout history. Sex sells.

There has been attempts to move away from the porn aspect, but what I can gather from my POV, is that the porn free versions just don't attract the traffic the more adult orientated version does. Do the porn free sites attract enough traffic to pay for themselves, or does the porn version subsidise the less porn versions? We will never officially know.

But don't forget, storiesonline needs the content supplied to it, to exist. And what you see, is what is submitted. It's what people are writing. We would all prefer more stories submitted that cater to our own personal preferences, but this is real life and not a Disney movie where everyone gets a happy ending.

That's because it isn't actually a sex stories site.

SOL is a sex story site. It just happens to allow no sex stories. The other two sites are not sex story sites. Just look at the tags. On SOL they're geared toward sexual situations.

People who complain about too much sex on SOL shouldn't be reading stories on SOL. They should be reading stories on the other two sites. And the authors of those no sex stories should be posting them on the other sites.

Yeah, ask me how I really feel about this topic. I used to argue with Ernest Bywater about it all the time. I don't come to SOL for no sex stories. I can find better ones in the public library or bookstore.

Didn't someone recently calculate that no-sex stories averaged higher scores than sex stories?

Anyway, no-sex is a nuclear option. I don't mind sex in stories provided it isn't irrelevant to the plot, unlike some stories where every chapter must have a cringingly awful sex scene. But such limited-sex stories don't have a home on Storyroom.

AJ

Didn't someone recently calculate that no-sex stories averaged higher scores than sex stories?

What does that have to do with my opinion that SOL is a sex story site that allows no sex stories?

What does that have to do with my opinion that SOL is a sex story site that allows no sex stories?

I could be wrong (not unusual) but I am pretty sure going by previous comments from Laz over the years, that this site was originally started as a story site that also catered to stories with sexual content, but the sexual element was not the purpose. It just became the focus over the years, as that was where the traffic is.

Laz, would you like to confirm either way please?

That was why the other two sites were created later, to provide a space for stories with little to no sex. I have 19 stories on Scifistories and did have an account at finestories (but never got round to doing anything with it), so I can say with certainty that traffic there is a LOT lower than here. Which does make posting there a little less appealing if you are after views.

While I have only my own work to use as a metric (because I can see the author stats), I have to give AJ a nod to the comment about no sex scoring better. That is also my take from my own work. Probably because without the focus of 'the sex' you have to focus on character and plot more to make up the shortfall.

this site was originally started as a story site that also catered to stories with sexual content, but the sexual element was not the purpose.

Well, I could be wrong, especially since my memory sucks, but I believe the story codes (tags) were part of the original site. And those story tags were "borrowed" from a sex story site and their intention was to provide the reader information about squicks. They were about sex stories.

I did a Category Search with -2nd POV and "any" selected and sorted by date (oldest first). The first 20 stories were much sex. All on the same day 07/1/1999 which must have been the date the site was created. Some even had the Novel-Pocketbook tag which I believe were posted by Lazeez and were porn novels. Then came a sprinkle of some sex, but mostly much sex. So the site was populated with sex stories. (by the way, "The Adventures of Me and Martha Jane," which was recently mentioned in another thread, was the 3rd story posted (much sex)).

I redid the search with "no sex" selected. The first no sex story was posted on 8/14/1999 (which is only a month and a half after the site was created. That surprised me). Oddly, it had the tag of "petting." The next no sex story is called "Cousin's Lips" with the tags "first," "incest," and "oral sex" so I don't know why it's labeled no sex. And the next one has "masturbation," "voyeurism," and "exhibitionism" as tags. Again, no sex?

But since the "no sex" was available so near the creation of the site, I guess it was always an option. But I still contend that it was overwhelmingly a sex story site at the start.

Thank you for the clarification. I was pretty sure that was the case and I couldn't find anything via the forum search. I have a sneaky suspicion most of the times you have stated this, have been on posts that have subsequently been deleted.

I shall have to go and lie down now, the shock of being correct about something is rather overwhelming...

I guess I was wrong in labeling this a sex stories site, my apologies.

Since it is not, and people here do not want to see smut posted amid the better writing, is there a place for someone like me? It seems clear that we are tolerated only, and I'm not a good enough writer to post 'real stories'. I'll have to think about things.

Since it is not, and people here do not want to see smut posted amid the better writing, is there a place for someone like me?

Here.

Some people do not want to see (read) 'smut' but that is what drives the majority of people to this site, so 🤷

If your story abides by the site rules, then submit for publication. The readership will ultimately decide whether or not your story is suitable. See what your comments and score say and then you can make a better informed choice as to what you want to do.

people here do not want to see smut posted amid the better writing

Hmm, some of the best writing on SOL has sex scenes.

Hmm, some of the best writing on SOL has sex scenes.

Of stories that are currently on the front page, the top five according to my ratings are three no sex, one minimal sex and one some sex, although so far the some sex is less than the minimal sex.

Wouldn't life be boring if we all thought the same!

AJ

Of stories that are currently on the front page

I don't spend much time on the front page. Like I said earlier, I find it filled with new serial chapters. When I do a Category Search, I exclude stories in progress and incomplete stories. The only place I see them is on the front page.

As to the crap that people are complaining about, there has always been garbage like that. I guess it's more so now. I don't know because I don't read much on SOL and what I read aren't typically new stories.

Writing a sex story and writing a good story with a plot and good characters is not contradictory. A story can have both. But good sex scenes are difficult to write. It takes skill. And that skill is what's lacking on SOL. But that's not new. Read some of the Novel-Pocketbooks. Those were actually published. You'll only find a decent one once in a while.

And just because a story is no sex doesn't make it better than a story with sex. Some of the most boring stories I've read on SOL are no or minimal sex. And not because there's no sex. Because it's bad writing.

As you can tell, I take offense with the assumption that a sex story is crap. A bad story is crap, whether it has sex or not.

As you can tell, I take offense with the assumption that a sex story is crap.

It's a good thing I didn't make that claim then.

AJ

So in my mind, Storiesonline.net is a story site that allows sex stories.

I stand corrected.

You can also sit... Or you can get down on your hands and knees and prepare to feel the wrath of... Anyway, moving swiftly on...

You can also sit

Nah, when I read it I was so surprised that I jumped to my feet.

There has been attempts to move away from the porn aspect

My novel has sex, including underage (18) sex, but it's not porn. It's a story where sometimes people have sex.

Maybe a method to delete stories that:
score less than 7

The site's median score is 6.0, so deleting everything less than 7 would significantly skew the median, which would then move up in sympathy. That would discriminate against new authors who often use this site to test and home their skills.

My most popular older story has a score of 5.9. It has a high ick factor, but people seem to keep on reading it nevertheless.

While I'm not happy with the current quality of stories on the homepage, I think your proposal would do more harm than good.

AJ

Agreed!

AJ

I don't know how likely that is, but they don't seem to be posting as frequently as they once did.

The obvious answer to that, is that they are getting old and dying... When you look at the lists people quote as the 'best stories/authors on the site', most of them are are written by (now) dead people.

Also, when people start saying things like "The best stories were written back in the late 90's or early 00's, that's basically 30 years ago now. That's a generation, and with every generation comes change. You either stay in that generation or you move on. Regardless, society has moved on, and with it, tastes have changed. What you are seeing being posted these days, is the manifestation of that change.

Nobody speaks or writes like Dickens or Shakespeare these days, they don't even write like Orwell and the like. It's not just written words, not many people today wear shell-suits, or ankle warmers and sweatbands...

This whole thread reminds me of the older individuals of my youth, who were forever spouting "Back in my day...." The shame shit I find myself saying...

The New and Update pages do do the same. If you have premier membership and that part is not working, click on to page 2 and maybe page 3. I'd do that on "New Stories" first, there are less of them than there are Update chapters.

For whatever reason, the graying out of items that I've already seen stopped working on the Updated Stories page some time ago. It still works fine on the New Stories page, though. Not a big deal for me, but just a little odd.

Note, this only stopped working fairly recently. I've gone through all seven pages of updates, but nothing is grayed out. Like I said, not a big deal, just odd.

Well, I do have it showing 20 stories/page. I think it defaults to 10. Beyond that, though, I filter quite a few stories out (anything with any of the BDSM codes, for a start), so I won't see as many stories as some people.

As far as I can see, it only allows up to 50. Not that it matters — it only shows stories updated in the last 30 days and the listings go back that far. They're just not grayed out.

[Edit] They weren't grayed out in that instance of SOL, but when I killed that tab and opened a new one they are. That happens fairly frequently, so I don't know what changed, but at least it did.

I read the first paragraph.The author says it is in progress, so there is worse to come. If this is AI generated, one instruction was do not use any periods.

On the other hand, the synopsis says "bored housewife," which leaves a lot of room to maneuver.

~ JBB

I read the first paragraph.

You are a braver man than I!!!

Flag that to Lazeez using the contact link at the top of the homepage.

It seems to be a sequel to an existing short story. If the short story is a complete story, there's probably no foul. It's not a good look though.

AJ

Now we have an author advertising the continuation of their story on ZBookStore in their blog.

Looking at that author's stories on ZBookStore (they are not novels), I'm concerned that ZBS is being flooded with crap. I think that's worse than the OP's concern about the SOL Home page. It will kill ZBookStore quicker than the crap on the Home page will kill SOL.

Why would anyone expect anything of quality on ZBS if they are inundated with that stuff?

Why would anyone expect anything of quality on ZBS if they are inundated with that stuff?

I think, at some point, Lazeez will need to impose some kind of quality standard, but I'm not sure how that would function, nor the amount of labor that would be involved.

The alternative is, as you say, an inundation of drek.

impose some kind of quality standard, but I'm not sure how that would function, nor the amount of labor that would be involved.

No labor at all. Just have an AI check for quality.

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

No labor at all. Just have an AI check for quality.

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

I actually thought about that when I wrote my response above! 😜

Problem is a lot of the slop is AI generated so the AI probably thinks it's Shakespeare.

It was a jest…

Just so I understand Lazeez, anyone who has a work listed on ZBS or BA that has opted for the Ad feature is fighting over 1 of 4 slots in both the AM and the PM slots daily?

That leads me to a question, how many books are currently being released on SOL in timed, chapter releases? Surely, it's more than 8 per day?

Does that mean the readership will get updates from the previously scheduled releases less frequently because everyone is fighting over few time slots?

If that's the case, then is it conceivable that some of these book releases will take even longer than before?

Where is the joy in using AI to write your stories? Half the fun of writing in general be it a memo to your boss or an erotic tale is finding the right word, conveying tone, etc.

I've noticed in AI-generated stories that, although the words might be technically correct in a dictionary sense, AI sometimes cranks out sentences that no native English speaker would write. Which is weird, since 'English' AIs are trained on words written by native English speakers for the most part.

AJ

Which is weird, since 'English' AIs are trained on words written by native English speakers for the most part.

When writing long-form stories (as opposed to answering a query), AI uses predictive text and probabilities, but doesn't always select the most probable match so as to yield variations. That leads to the strange sentences you've noticed.

2) Where is the joy in using AI to write your stories?

Two main reasons:

1 - Many people have a story in their head but are not verbally talented enough to tell their stories. You know how some are labelled as good story tellers? Some people can't tell a reasonably comprehensible story if their life depended on it. For those, AI can be very helpful in allowing them to verbalize their thoughts.

2 - Those looking for a quick buck with minimal effort.

For those, AI can be very helpful in allowing them to verbalize their thoughts.

That's scary, AI that can read thoughts.

AJ