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Story Macguffin Help Needed

awnlee jawking 🚫

Google refuses to give me any relevant results :-(

Is there some way lenses can be utilised in a camera to completely block light? How about two orthogonal(?) polarising lenses? Or perhaps a combination of tinted lenses or filters?

AJ

Dominions Son 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Is there some way lenses can be utilised in a camera to completely block light? How about two orthogonal(?) polarising lenses? Or perhaps a combination of tinted lenses or filters?

As SB notes, this would negate the purpose of a camera.

The only reason I could think of for doing this would be to blackout a security camera for nefarious purposes. For this, black spray paint to the lens would be quicker, easier, and cheaper.

Replies:   Pixy
Pixy 🚫

@Dominions Son

As SB notes,

Has a reply been deleted? I thought maybe I had blocked SB or vice-verso, but I see SB replies on other threads, so....

Dominions Son 🚫

@Pixy

Has a reply been deleted?

Apparently. When I posted my reply there was a reply by Switch Blayde.

Switch Blayde 🚫

@Pixy

Has a reply been deleted?

Yes, I deleted it. I'm surprised it was seen since I deleted it almost right away.

I asked what the camera would be used for since a camara doesn't work when there's no light. But then I realized that some kinds of cameras can work with no light, like thermal cameras. So I deleted the post not wanting to sound dumb.

Dominions Son 🚫
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

But then I realized that some kinds of cameras can work with no light, like thermal cameras.

https://www.dwyeromega.com/en-us/resources/thermal-imagers

A thermal imaging camera is a device that captures infrared radiation emitted by objects and converts it into a visible image, a process that is called Thermal Imaging.

Infrared radiation is outside of the range of what is detectable by the human eye, but it is light. It is part of the same electromagnetic spectrum as visible light.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

I thought you made a good point, despite it putting me in a difficult position.

AJ

Pixy 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Yes, I deleted it. I'm surprised it was seen since I deleted it almost right away.

πŸ‘πŸ»

Dicrostonyx 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I'll mention that you could definitely make special "lenses" that would do this without seeming to be anything special.

The easy way would be with coatings of the type that are used on modern eyeglasses. Although the wearer can see out perfectly normally, the exterior of these lenses often fluoresces, especially in photos. For example, if you have a glare reduction coating on your glasses and take a selfie with a mobile device outside, the lens will reflect more than you would expect. I've even seen photos where it looks like the glasses are glowing blue, cyberpunk style.

You'd have to hand wave it a bit, but you could say that someone got an applicable pair of glasses, popped out the lenses, and fitted them into camera lens apparatus backwards. I doubt it would really work, but with a bit of setup it would workable.

Replies:   jimq2
jimq2 🚫

@Dicrostonyx

Or you could simply buy a polarizing filter for your camera. I've got them in several sizes for different lenses.

Eric Ross 🚫
Updated:

@awnlee jawking

It already exists and it uses your polarizer technique. In photography, a neutral density filter reduces the light entering the lens by a set number of stops without changing tone. Great for shooting a sunset, or achieving that cool milky effect from a long exposure of moving water. So… a variable neutral density filter is two polarizer filters fastened together, with a lever that allows one to be rotated in relation to the other. I've seen them able to turn completely opaque (to my eye anyway). Check them out on Amazon.

E

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer 🚫

@Eric Ross

Except, you could do the exact same, much faster and much more efficiently, either by adjusting your smartphone settings OR manually adjusting them in any of a number of photo-management apps/programs. I've been doing that for what the last twenty of thirty years now (less for the smartphones, obviously).

It seems a pretty old-school technique, yet for escaping police cameras, it makes a LOT of sense.

Replies:   Eric Ross
Eric Ross 🚫

@Crumbly Writer

Agree that you can simulate an ND filter in post, but I haven't been able to achieve the same effects as an ND in post processing alone. YMMV … it's possible I'm just reverting to a technique that I know will work out of impatience.

Mat Twassel 🚫

@awnlee jawking

What you do is have the shutter button sensitive to the fingerprint. So when the photographer presses, the camera "clicks" but no photo is actually taken… Unless that finger's fingerprint is in the file of fingerprints stored in the camera's memory, in which case the photo is taken as usual. So for a particular photographer, maybe his (or her) index finger's fingerprint is not on file, but his (or her) middle finger's fingerprint is.

Pixy 🚫

@awnlee jawking

It probably has no relation, but I was watching this the other day and I was reminded of this thread.

It's a video about the alleged (I say alleged, because it's Chinese tech) creation of contact lenses that allows the wearer to see in infrared. Interestingly, they apparently work better with the eyes closed, because eyelids don't hinder the infrared wavelength.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQh9ezBdoPM

Whilst it might not be the answer you are looking for, the droid, sorry video, might provide you more believable scientific handwavium...

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@Pixy

It probably has no relation

It may have some pertinence within my cesspool of muddled thinking. Interesting. Thank you.

AJ

Replies:   Pixy  Crumbly Writer
Pixy 🚫

@awnlee jawking

πŸ‘

Crumbly Writer 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Hey, sometimes muddled thinking promotes the most interesting discussions, if not always the best stories. ;)

BlacKnight 🚫
Updated:

@awnlee jawking

I actually jury-rigged a light-blocking lens for taking pictures of the recent total solar eclipse, using a pair of polarized sunglasses lenses that I'd popped out and trimmed down to round, and mounted with the polarizations perpendicular on a section cut from a paper towel tube (so it would stand out from the front of the camera body and not interfere with the autofocue). If I'd had more time, I would have set it up so I could rotate one of lenses and have the opacity adjustable, but I only came up with the idea fifteen minutes before the start of the eclipse, after my first effort at making an eclipse filter using dark-tinted film didn't work. (It was both too blurry and not opaque enough.)

It kind of worked, and I think the problems were more down to the cheap camera I was using than my jury-rigged lens. Its autofocus doesn't like taking pictures of light sources, and it doesn't have a manual focus. (I have never gotten a decent picture of a Christmas tree out of it...)

irvmull 🚫
Updated:

@awnlee jawking

Both infrared and UV photos are relatively easy to take by blocking visible light with off-the shelf filters:
https://kolarivision.com/getting-started-uv-photography/

Once you go past violet light, you get UV, then x-rays, then gamma rays.

If you go below red, you get IR, then microwaves, then radio waves.

All part of the electromagnetic spectrum.

Film, of course, is only sensitive to some of those frequencies (near infrared to gamma rays, I think), and thermal imaging cameras pick up far infrared. Below that, the "sensors" that pick up those frequencies are leftover fried chicken, and radio/tv receivers.

But I'm guessing that for the purposes of a story, you're wanting to let something other than electromagnetic radiation thru the filter? Something heretofore unknown?

awnlee jawking 🚫

I wish you hadn't asked that because an explanation would give too much of the story away. Suffice it to say, the protagonist wants a combination of lenses that theoretically blocks all light but in some handwavium circumstances light actually appears to pass through.

AJ

Crumbly Writer 🚫

@awnlee jawking

In that case, by using variable strength lenses in each color, you could make some more visible than others (like red, which typically has the shortest wavelength). It's an intriguing concept, and I'm interested in how it plays out.

Replies:   helmut_meukel
helmut_meukel 🚫

@Crumbly Writer

by using variable strength lenses in each color, you could make some more visible than others (like red, which typically has the shortest wavelength).

Check your facts please. Red has the longest wavelength but the lowest frequency, while violet has the highest frequency and the shortest wavelength of visible light. Beyond red – with increasing wavelength – comes infrared, microwave and radio waves. Beyond violet – with decreasing wavelength – comes UV, X-rays and Ξ³-rays.

HM.

Big Ed Magusson 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Build a camera with two 100% linearly polarizing elements (doable to 99%+ in modern technology). Mount one of them in a rotation ring. When the two lenses are aligned, you see the full scene (assuming the scene itself is unpolarized). Rotate the one lens 90 degrees so that the linear polarizers are crossed. You now have zero light passing through ("zero" being limited by the imperfections in the filters).

The scene caveat: the light from most natural scenes is unpolarized. The light from some scenes is highly polarized--notably glint off of water or metal and many digital displays. Those will get you different results.

If you want to test this out, get two polarized sunglass lenses (take one pair and pop the lenses out of the frame). Then look through both of the lenses and rotate one. The intensity of the light will change as a function of the rotation angle.

If you want to wade into more technical details, drop me a private message.

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