Forum: Author Hangout

Have you heard of Google?

TMax 🚫

Ok, an annoyance, maybe a bit of a rant, but also an observation that others likely have noticed.

1) Why do people post a question in a discussion forum - what is ____??? - Why would they not just Google it?

2) Why do people answer them? Why not just say - Google it?

3) No three - but apparently, AI likes three points for everything, and since every post needs to talk about AI at some point, I added it here.

4) Because I just thought about it, bets on:
a) Number of people who will defend their right to ask Google-able questions?
b) Number of people who will defend their right to respond to those people?
c) Number of trolls that will eat little people off the bridge (old, not sure how trolls work anymore - maybe I need to Google the meaning)?
d) Number of total responses off topic or ask if AI will replace our overlords?
e) How many of you think that the world is secretly controlled by one group of people/aliens?
f) How many of you do not think that the world is secretly controlled by one group of people/aliens, and that scares you more?
g) I think I like lists
h) Are you still reading, seriously, like, why?

Cheers, and Happy New Year,

Replies: fohjoffs awnlee jawking Pixy REP Pixy awnlee jawking BlacKnight jimq2 tendertouch jimq2 Darkniciad samt26 awnlee jawking

fohjoffs 🚫

@TMax

I do not know. You should probably just google it to get these questions answered.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@TMax

Why do people post a question in a discussion forum - what is ____??? - Why would they not just Google it?

I personally have abused this privilege when I've been thwarted by Google. My perception is that Google now indexes fewer pages and employs AI to 'correct' anyone who is searching for something not commonly asked for.

But I too share your exasperation at posters who ask trivial general knowledge questions in the Author Hangout despite their not being authors and the questions being readily answerable by Google.

Happy New Year, even though scientifically the new year ought to start on the winter solstice rather than as dictated by religious superstition.

AJ

Replies: jimq2 Paladin_HGWT

jimq2 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Happy New Year, even though scientifically the new year ought to start on the winter solstice rather than as dictated by religious superstition.

Isn't that from another religious superstition? Druids maybe?

Replies: awnlee jawking Michael Loucks

awnlee jawking 🚫

@jimq2

Druids maybe?

Druids sound viable suspects, but I just think it's logical for the switchover to occur when days stop getting shorter and start to get longer again. Those in the southern hemisphere might object, but what have the southern hemisphericals ever done for us!

AJ

Replies: Bondi Beach

Bondi Beach 🚫

@awnlee jawking

object, but what have the southern hemisphericals ever done for us!

I don't know about you, but it's not only at the swimming pool that I enjoy looking casually at a number of paired southern hemisphericals.

~ JBB

Replies: samuelmichaels

samuelmichaels 🚫

@Bondi Beach

paired southern hemisphericals

Well-played!

Replies: Vincent Berg

Vincent Berg 🚫

@samuelmichaels

Or rather, well paired, symetrically.

Michael Loucks 🚫

@jimq2

Isn't that from another religious superstition? Druids maybe?

And there are equal arguments for Midsummer (Midsommar). That's my preference, but we're stuck with the two-faced god Janus, rather than March 1st as the Romans originally intended (hence why the leap day is at the end of February.

If I were to create a new calendar, I'd set up 13 4-week months, with leap days following Midsummer. Neither Midsummer nor the leap day would be days of a week, and thus the 1st day of every month would be a Monday, and you'd always know what day of the week a particular day was, year-in, year-out.

Replies: jimq2 Diamond Porter TheDarkKnight Argon

jimq2 🚫

@Michael Loucks

I'd set up 13 4-week months

That leaves you short a day, and if you add a day in mid year the following months would no longer start on a Monday. 365 is not evenly divisible by 7.

Replies: Michael Loucks

Michael Loucks 🚫
Updated:

@jimq2

That leaves you short a day, and if you add a day in mid year the following months would no longer start on a Monday. 365 is not evenly divisible by 7.

Go back and read what I wrote:

Neither Midsummer nor the leap day would be days of a week

28*13 = 364
Midsummer = 1

Total 365. Leap day follows Midsummer, and is not a day of the weak, either. They're both intercalary days.

Diamond Porter 🚫

@Michael Loucks

It sounds as if you are influenced by the hobbits' calendar (LoTR, Appendix D) though that has 30-day months with 5 or 6 non-month days.

Personally, I like the idea of fixing the dates of the solstices and equinoxes, and inserting the occasional extra day in whichever season requires it. I am aware of several problems with this idea.

Replies: Michael Loucks

Michael Loucks 🚫

@Diamond Porter

It sounds as if you are influenced by the hobbits' calendar (LoTR, Appendix D) though that has 30-day months with 5 or 6 non-month days.

Not really. I remembered that, but it, like the Faerûn calendar from the Forgotten Realms campaign material for D&D 3.5e, were overly complicated with too many intercalary days.

I simply worked out the basic math and created a standard, easy-to-use, easy-to-remember system that met the needs of my fantasy world to be used in an upcoming publication on ZBookstore/Bookapy and SOL.

TheDarkKnight 🚫

@Michael Loucks

"Midsommer" is a great movie.

Replies: Michael Loucks

Michael Loucks 🚫

@TheDarkKnight

"Midsommer" is a great movie.

It is. I speak Swedish, so I could understand all the dialog (as they intentionally didn't include subtitles in the initial release to create an air of mystery).

Argon 🚫

@Michael Loucks

(hence why the leap day is at the end of February.

And I thought that was because there was enough room in February with only 28 days…

Replies: Michael Loucks

Michael Loucks 🚫

@Argon

And I thought that was because there was enough room in February with only 28 days…

It's something of a complicated mess.

The original Roman calendar had only 10 months totaling 304 days, leaving winter unaccounted for. Around 710 BC, January and February were added, creating a 12-month lunar year of 355 days (to align roughly with 12 lunar cycles).

Most months received 29 or 31 days because the Romans considered odd numbers lucky and even numbers unlucky.

February, associated with purification rituals (februa) and honoring the dead, was deemed unlucky, so was assigned 28 days as an exception, and was originally the last month of the year.

This made the total year 355 days (odd and auspicious overall).

Later, to better align with the solar year (~365.25 days), adjustments were necessary. In 45 BC, Julius Caesar introduced the Julian calendar, adding days to several months to achieve a base of 365 days. February remained at 28 days in common years, while a leap day was added every four years to account for the fractional day in the solar year.

The leap day was placed in February partly because it was historically the site of intercalary adjustments.

Replies: solitude

solitude 🚫

@Michael Loucks

Later, to better align with the solar year (~365.25 days), adjustments were necessary. In 45 BC, Julius Caesar introduced the Julian calendar, adding days to several months to achieve a base of 365 days. February remained at 28 days in common years, while a leap day was added every four years to account for the fractional day in the solar year.

I recal being taught that the Julian calendar originally has alternating 30-day and 31-day months, with February being 29 or 30 - but when Sextilis was renamed to honour Augustus a day was stolen from February to make August the same length as the month named after Julius.

Replies: Michael Loucks

Michael Loucks 🚫

@solitude

I recal being taught that the Julian calendar originally has alternating 30-day and 31-day months, with February being 29 or 30 - but when Sextilis was renamed to honour Augustus a day was stolen from February to make August the same length as the month named after Julius.

I believe that is accurate.

Paladin_HGWT 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Happy New Year, even though scientifically the new year ought to start on the winter solstice rather than as dictated by religious superstition.

Most of the world uses a calendar based not upon any religion, but upon the whims of a Roman Emperor. Russia, and some other places follow the calendar of a different Roman Emperor. The traditional Roman Calendar was not (particularly) religious; it had ten equal months, with a few 'extra' days at year end. Then they added extra months for Julius Caesar, and then Caesar Agustus; of course, those months 'deserved' extra days...

People of the Islamic Uma / Arabs, among others follow a Lunar Calendar.

China, Japan, and other Asian nations follow their own calendars, but for most purposes follow the Western European/American calendar.

Pixy 🚫

@TMax

1) Why do people post a question in a discussion forum rather than Googling

Sometimes the answer required is not the obvious and succinct one generally given out by Google. Sometimes people ask a question here, not for the answer, but the path to the answer.

For instance "How do I load A into B?" Google might say "Pull part D back and load A". Which is technically correct. Users here might say "When you pull part D of B back, part F catches on your hand and it hurts like hell, and when you release D, the noise is like nails on a blackboard..." As a storyteller, which version would you rather have to tell your readers and help them live the part of your character?

Replies: TMax

TMax 🚫

@Pixy

I was confused, and true to your word, google made me more confused, because when I asked it how to I load A into B, it asked if I wanted to put it into C, which caused me to pause, because based on first letters, I would have thought D into A/B, but then C/V, which, how did this become about electronics?

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@TMax

which, how did this become about electronics?

Oh, that explains it. I thought @Pixy was covertly discussing American politics.

One of my recent Google searches was on the effects of grapefruit juice on Tmax. You could probably answer that from personal experience :-)

AJ

Replies: Bondi Beach

Bondi Beach 🚫

@awnlee jawking

One of my recent Google searches was on the effects of grapefruit juice on Tmax.

You wanted to know if it was more effective than D-76?

~ JBB

Replies: TMax

TMax 🚫

@Bondi Beach

D-76

It was way more effective, I think, because with all the grapefruit juice, and how do you get stains out of pants, and why are my pants all messed up, and where are my glasses, anyway, more confused now, and "Stupid kids, get off my lawn!!"

Replies: Bondi Beach

Bondi Beach 🚫

@TMax

and "Stupid kids, get off my lawn!!"

Crocodiles are effective, I've heard.

~ JBB

REP 🚫

@TMax

Google can be a pain-in-the-ass to use. It displays every possible thing and most you don't want.

REP

Replies: Argon

Argon 🚫

@REP

Try DuckDuckGo.

Pixy 🚫

@TMax

2) Why do people answer them? Why not just say - Google it?

Following on from my previous reply, the answer to your question could easily be because Google only gives technical answers. Like; "To access A you need to remove B" which is technically correct, but someone who does the act in question might reply with "To access A, you need to remove B, but you need heat to remove B which will damage part F, so you need to remove part F. Also, if you have normal sized hands, you are not getting them in there, so you need to remove part Y to give you the space to remove part A. And on reinstallation, you need to smother some compound V on the threads of part B..." These are all 'tricks of the trade' that Google may not report, and it's hard won experience that some people like to share to make a complete strangers life that little bit easier...

Replies: TMax

TMax 🚫

@Pixy

Ok, this makes more sense, because, if I want A, and I need to remove B, but my normal sized hands imply normal sized D (which google may or may not know about, depends on my browser settings), then I try to insert D into C/V, but F gets damaged, but, did I care about F, or just F, and which compound do I smother on V, or in, as is the preference.
Ah, F-it, I'll just google it.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@TMax

Showing you the results for 'Herd of Googles'.

Show results instead for 'Heard of Google'?

:-)

AJ

BlacKnight 🚫

@TMax

Google has been getting increasingly worthless as they prioritize pushing their slop machine over actually finding websites for you. I don't remember if I've mentioned it here before, but I have, on more than one occasion, had Google give me an "AI Overview" that was an obvious paraphrasing of the first actual result — which had been pushed below the fold by all the slop and paid placement — but with a critical "not" omitted, thus completely reversing the meaning of it.

jimq2 🚫

@TMax

I've seen multiple times where the AI summary has been wrong, even giving false information.

tendertouch 🚫

@TMax

1) Why do people post a question in a discussion forum - what is ____??? - Why would they not just Google it?

2) Why do people answer them? Why not just say - Google it?

1) Could be because they prefer interacting with other humans, or maybe because they're having trouble formulation the question.

2) Because I try not to be a jerk.

Replies: TMax Paladin_HGWT

TMax 🚫

@tendertouch

Ah, I see the disconnect,
1) I prefer not to interact with anything, human, or AI, or cat, which at this moment insists that I not only interact with it, but also feed it.
2) I enjoy jerking

Who invented these things? They seem confusing.
I like jerking, I like Jerk Chicken, I like Beef Jerky, I also dislike being a jerk

Paladin_HGWT 🚫

@tendertouch

Well said.

jimq2 🚫

@TMax

Google has gotten so bad that there is even an article in the current AARP magazine about how inaccurate google has become with AI.

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@jimq2

Google has gotten so bad that there is even an article in the current AARP magazine about how inaccurate google has become with AI.

The UK is currently getting its knickers in a twist because Elon Musk's AI, Grok, allows nudification of women and children.

AJ

Replies: Michael Loucks

Michael Loucks 🚫

@awnlee jawking

The UK is currently getting its knickers in a twist because Elon Musk's AI, Grok, allows nudification of women and children.

A country that claims to be a pluralistic democracy but arrests people for mean tweets cannot be taken seriously.

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Michael Loucks

A country that claims to be a pluralistic democracy but arrests people for mean tweets cannot be taken seriously

Which is insult to injury for the long-suffering commoners who live here :-)

AJ

Darkniciad 🚫

@TMax

Google has been terrible for a lot of things for years. Exact text search hasn't worked worth a damn since before covid. Now they're stealing page views from sites with their often wildly inaccurate AI summary eating the whole top of the page whether you want it or not.

Going to have to check out DuckDuckGo and see if it does any of the stuff Google used to do before it went to pot.

Replies: Switch Blayde storiesonline_23

Switch Blayde 🚫

@Darkniciad

Google has been terrible for a lot of things for years.

I find the Google results better than the DuckDuckGo ones. And Google's AI just answered a Mac question I had and it was better than Apple's Tech Support.

I recently installed MacOS Tahoe and tried to use the Launchpad for the first time since the install. It was in the Doc, but it was different. I called Apple Tech Support for help and everything she told me to do didn't work. Then she put me on hold. While on hold, I googled my question. Google's AI gave me the answer — Launchpad is gone in Tahoe. I'm not sure what I now have in the Doc, but it's not Launchpad.

Replies: Michael Loucks

Michael Loucks 🚫

@Switch Blayde

I'm not sure what I now have in the Doc, but it's not Launchpad.

App picker/chooser that is not nearly as useful.

storiesonline_23 🚫

@Darkniciad

Going to have to check out DuckDuckGo and see if it does any of the stuff Google used to do before it went to pot.

duckduckgo does include an AI summary. Alas! Subvert it by using https://noai.duckduckgo.com/

samt26 🚫

@TMax

Most people are crazy

awnlee jawking 🚫

@TMax

Why would they not just Google it?

A current news story in the UK concerns the West Midlands police banning Maccabi Tel Aviv fans from watching their team at Aston Villa based on fictitious evidence.

One of the major pieces of evidence was a report of violence at a previous fixture between West Ham and Maccabi Tel Aviv. There has never been such a fixture. Police are variously blaming that on a Google AI or a Microsoft Copilot hallucination (which Google and Microsoft say they can't recreate).

Do people need to beware of Google hallucinations or are the police lying?

AJ

Replies: Michael Loucks Dominions Son

Michael Loucks 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Do people need to beware of Google hallucinations or are the police lying?

Those are not mutually exclusive. 😎

Dominions Son 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Do people need to beware of Google hallucinations or are the police lying?

Both. The Google AI definitely hallucinates some times.

And I've seen stories coming out of the UK where the relevant authorities have admitted to the UK parliament that the real reason for the ban was threats of violence against the Maccabi Tel Aviv fans by local Muslims.

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Dominions Son

And I've seen stories coming out of the UK where the relevant authorities have admitted to the UK parliament that the real reason for the ban was threats of violence against the Maccabi Tel Aviv fans by local Muslims.

IMO that's almost certainly the real reason :-(

AJ

Replies: solitude

solitude 🚫

@awnlee jawking

IMO that's almost certainly the real reason :-(

And perhaps the police themselves don't want to risk being hurt protecting 'Zionists'. Or am I being too cynical?

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@solitude

You could have stopped at the word 'hurt'.

They have been many instances of trouble in the UK in the last couple of years where police have waited until things started to calm down before they tried to intervene and assert authority.

AJ

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Have you heard of Google?

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